It’s Elementary Show #10 – Copyright, It’s the Law!

Our guest for this show is Aimee Bissonette whose legal practice
focuses on copyright and trademark law, as well as rights licensing
issues. Alice presents a case study to inform teachers about copyright
and how it affects multimedia projects that you post on the web.


Chat Log

   JoseR -> EdTechTalk We have a crowd -)

   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Hello
   Durff -> EdTechTalk that’s better
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i refreshed
   Durff -> EdTechTalk twittering again
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Welcome
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk to It’s Elementary
   arthus -> EdTechTalk *vagrantly doesn’t do homework*
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi all
   arthus -> EdTechTalk anyone a math teacher?
   arthus -> EdTechTalk hi Druff
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi everyone
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Durff*
   Durff -> EdTechTalk yes but don’t tell anyone
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk our focus is on Elementary School, so we teach everything
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i don’t like it
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi courosa
   Durff -> EdTechTalk except drivers ed
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @JoseR Oh ya…. I’d better go fine someone who is high school
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Hi all
   arthus -> EdTechTalk for a friend of mine
   Durff -> EdTechTalk kuropatwa
   Durff -> EdTechTalk he’s on twitter
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Hi Arthus, was very impressed by your .mp3 a while back, played it for my class.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk arthus should be a guest teacher in one of my classes
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @coucasa thanks
   Maria -> EdTechTalk hi arthus – I teach math in kindergarten!p
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff haha… sure that would be awesome
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Maria P looking for high school here… tweeting
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i’ll get past preso and turkey day and schedule you
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi heff
   Durff -> EdTechTalk jeff
   JL -> EdTechTalk Hello Lisa & all
   Durff -> EdTechTalk it’s a day – can’t even type
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi Jeff
   arthus -> EdTechTalk cool )
   arthus -> EdTechTalk hi Jeff
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Sounds like an another examples of … http//
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hello Lisa
   lisaparisi -> EdTechTalk Hi Jose
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi parisi!
   courosa -> EdTechTalk The issue is copyright itself, it’s time to promote copyleft in schools (Creative Commons) … this is not being done as much as it should be.
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk We are discussing copyright and fair use for teachers
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Creative commons is usually the next step
   arthus -> EdTechTalk I love CC
   arthus -> EdTechTalk I go directly to CC for everything
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk We are concerned with use of material that comes from the curriculum we teach
   Durff -> EdTechTalk but how many do?
   courosa -> EdTechTalk I wish more of my students did, Arthus. We  need to push for it.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk teach it
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Show it to them…. they’ll love the idea
   Durff -> EdTechTalk require it
   arthus -> EdTechTalk oh, i like that
   arthus -> EdTechTalk require creative commons
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Especially in Elementary School.  We might want to produce content based on units of study or text we are teaching
   Durff -> EdTechTalk we will do it on our movies
   arthus -> EdTechTalk also, have your students put a license on their work
   Durff -> EdTechTalk in dec
   arthus -> EdTechTalk have them chose one
   Durff -> EdTechTalk today we focused on our readers
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi Susan,  what grade do you teach?
   courosa -> EdTechTalk I am not sure if we can require it, legally, and ethically. I think in a perfect world we would promote sharing, but not everyone wants to. And, it’s also important to note that copyleft doesn’t actually work without copyright.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk added blogs of the ‘big guys’ and read and blogged what resonated
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa the day that a teacher can’t legally require stuff for an assignment is a sour day
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i will require it
   courosa -> EdTechTalk I wish everyone did, but there will always be people that need copyright for their livelihood.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk I can and will
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi sarah
   arthus -> EdTechTalk if teachers can require you watch a tv show for homework, they can require you use creative commons work
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @durff You require CC licences of your students?
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i do
   Sarah S -> EdTechTalk Hi
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Hi Sarah
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk @courosa, an educator you want to showcase what is happening in your classroom.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk if it’s created in my class it’s c
   courosa -> EdTechTalk I like the idea, but I don’t believe that is legal.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk cc
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa what’s not legal about it?
   Durff -> EdTechTalk it’s school courosa
   arthus -> EdTechTalk it’s a requirement of assignment… this is school
   Durff -> EdTechTalk perfectly legal
   arthus -> EdTechTalk every file on school network belongs to school…
   Durff -> EdTechTalk exactly
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk You are not looking at taking away $$$$ from original copyright
   Durff -> EdTechTalk if anyone makes $, buy me dinner
   courosa -> EdTechTalk It’s students’ intellectual property … in fact, this was challenged when was brought into schools. Students fought against it, and they found that schools could not legally ask for papers to be submitted to because it is student’s intellectual property.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk they might be familiar with the original work
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa but you can require they use creative commons licensed work
   courosa -> EdTechTalk No, that’s not true. Students own the work.
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Yes, arthus, that is correct.
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Not if it’s on school network…
   Durff -> EdTechTalk courosa – i’m not in a pubic school
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk on CC I would have to have PARENTS agree since my kids are under
   arthus -> EdTechTalk most schools have a clause in computer use policy that if it’s in school networj it is school property
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Is turnit in a database service or website for a school?
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i can require it if created in my room
   courosa -> EdTechTalk You can require students to use CC work, but it is illegal to require them to license their work under the CC as students own copyright.
   arthus -> EdTechTalk I agree, that would be illegal
   courosa -> EdTechTalk well you can ask them, but can’t force them.
   arthus -> EdTechTalk let alone unethical
   Durff -> EdTechTalk yes i can
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff maybe in private school… not public
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa I think that was the idea, force CC sources but allow them to chose license
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i am not forcing them to use it for work created on their own time or for another course
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Arthus is correct … public schools you are not able to force CC licenses of students, it is their right to copyright, their intellectual property.
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Well as intellectual property you can always reserve all rights
   Durff -> EdTechTalk i knew i left public schools for a good reason
   Durff -> EdTechTalk this silliness is it
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa hmm… but I wonder if u make it on a school network
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Yes Jose, but the default is all rights reserved. So unfortunately, this is why we have CC licenses … the default is NOT to share … you have to choose to share.
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff yes, beaucracy limits the creativty so much
   Durff -> EdTechTalk it’s a shame
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa but if you make if on a school network, it is property of school often
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Agreed.
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk @Courosa  do understand default rights
   Durff -> EdTechTalk creation of content is the top of Bloom’s taxonomy
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff I’m constantly conflicted betwen equality and anger at the system
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus, I think you may have a point, but it would have to be stated explicitly somewhere in the Network Use Policy.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi clithers
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa of course… which it is in my school
   Durff -> EdTechTalk sound below the chat room
   arthus -> EdTechTalk hence, I don’t store files on school network
   clithers -> EdTechTalk Hi Durff et al
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @aruthus, what does it state on your policy?
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @durff so you are in a private school?
   Durff -> EdTechTalk thank God I am
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @coucosa looking it up now…
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi kbosch
   Durff -> EdTechTalk sound is right below the chat room
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hi folks,  We are discussing fair use criteria
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Any questions for our guests?
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk guest
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi jeff
   Durff -> EdTechTalk we dropped our guest
   courosa -> EdTechTalk hmmmm … i am not sure if copyright licensing makes it more marketable
   Durff -> EdTechTalk any questions for our guest?
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi Jarnie
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi phil
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk hey folks
   Durff -> EdTechTalk sound below the chat room
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk already have it thanks!
   Durff -> EdTechTalk great
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk great topic tonight
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hello there
   clithers -> EdTechTalk I wonder how safe it is to assume that education has a "special case" over, say, re-use for medical or any other purpose.
   Durff -> EdTechTalk any questions for our guest?
   arthus -> EdTechTalk "All files existing within the school network are the property of [my school]."
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk Love to have her speak to how Creative Commons has affected fair use.
   clithers -> EdTechTalk It’s my idea, I stole it first!
   Sarah S -> EdTechTalk Hey there Cheryl!
   Maria -> EdTechTalk hello skiing fool!
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Hello, I am glad to get here finally.
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk @clithers it seems that educators do NOT have special privilidges, roms are probably the same
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Hi Maria, Sarah, and all in the chat
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Yeah, well, I would like text companies to go to a Creative Commons noncomercial
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk rules are still the same
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Or CreativeCommons for anyone BUYING the text?
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus … wow, that is very oppressive. Then by default every teacher lesson plan, unit, multimedia, every student project … all owned by the school. That’s just wrong. Makes the case for USB disks or portable hard drives.
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk Alice- interesting to think about
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa I know…. it’s incredibly oppresive. Yet, somehow I doubt it would hold up in court
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Like, if I wrote a novel in school and wanted to sell it I doubt they could claim copyright
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Here is a list of copyright friendly list  http//
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk Nice Jose- thanks!
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus … it wouldn’t, someone wrote it without any sense of the law. And the way it is written, NOTHING created that resided on the networked could be put into the CC without permission of the school officials.
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Still, I do everything on my own USB or laptop
   CathyN -> EdTechTalk Hello room
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa That’s what I thought… but it still intimidates teachers/students without knowledge of law
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus But in reality, Facebook does the same thing, but they are private. No way that would hold up in a courtroom for a public institution.
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus Agreed!
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk http//   on creative commons
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa yup, in a way. In addiiton, Facebook actually has good lawyers P
   courosa -> EdTechTalk http//
   Maria -> EdTechTalk http//
   courosa -> EdTechTalk i blogged it a while back.
   arthus -> EdTechTalk besides, students don’t have a choice…
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Ted Talk link by lessig;http//
   arthus -> EdTechTalk which would effectively mean school forces students to revoke copyright
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk oops not linkable
   Durff -> EdTechTalk if we miss a question – please repeat it
   clithers -> EdTechTalk It may be that law is different in UK but it’s not about where the work is stored, more who created it and on whose $/£
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk http//
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk got
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk got it
   Durff -> EdTechTalk we don’t intentionally miss any
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff hi )
   Durff -> EdTechTalk clithers – where in UK are you?
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Here is a fun youtube on Fair Use;  http//
   Durff -> EdTechTalk you’re famous arthus
   arthus -> EdTechTalk haha… )
   arthus -> EdTechTalk actually, creative commons is more profitable for small players
   clithers -> EdTechTalk @durff Tonight in hotel in Exeter, normally Suffolk over in the east
   arthus -> EdTechTalk for instance, nobody would PAY for my scripts
   Durff -> EdTechTalk wow!
   arthus -> EdTechTalk but I do make more from donations/support fees
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Anyone want to join call?
   arthus -> EdTechTalk I offer all my code for free
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk mizmercer on Skype
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk our show is still on for post show
   arthus -> EdTechTalk And have people pay me for support… works great
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk This has been good. Thanks for a great guest!
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Durff needs to talk more )
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Excellent outro Maria!!
   Durff -> EdTechTalk no arthus she does not
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus … very cool. Glad to know you are sharing your code. One of the reasons this is the way it is relates to the abundance vs. scarcity economy … and the attention economy. Basically, if you give something away, it brings more attention to it. See Linux.
   langwitches -> EdTechTalk Thank you
   arthus -> EdTechTalk Very nice Maria… want to be on radio
   Durff -> EdTechTalk she should
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk Arthus, would you just love to be in her kindergarten????
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa yes… works very well. Actually some of my plugins are good
   Durff -> EdTechTalk we all would
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Great presentation at the kOnline Conference  http//
   arthus -> EdTechTalk pretty good*
   clithers -> EdTechTalk We tend to look at our shoes when it comes to copyright but we ignore at our peril.
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk http//
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Durff hmm… yuppers
   courosa -> EdTechTalk what plugins?
   arthus -> EdTechTalk for WordPress
   arthus -> EdTechTalk http//
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Copyright clearning house…
   Durff -> EdTechTalk if anyone wants to call in you should call mizmercer
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi pam
   Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk hi
   Durff -> EdTechTalk if you enter skype call remember to turn off the stream first
   clithers -> EdTechTalk Dead right. I have a music podcast and the motto is "Podcasting is selling music, and it’s legal!
   Durff -> EdTechTalk )
   Phil g -> EdTechTalk thanks folks! Keep up the great work!
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi again pam
   Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk )
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi phil
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi matthew
   mathew -> EdTechTalk hello
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi derralg
   mathew -> EdTechTalk can’t hear anything
   Maria -> EdTechTalk @arthus – I’m your NH neighbor!
   derrallg -> EdTechTalk hi durff
   Durff -> EdTechTalk mathew sound below chat room
   Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk These voices sound very familiar!
   Durff -> EdTechTalk we are pam
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @Maria live free or die, eh?
   Durff -> EdTechTalk the flag
   Durff -> EdTechTalk )
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi ann
   Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk Hi – I love the topic
   Maria -> EdTechTalk righto
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk http//
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Cool
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk I have a copyright statement in sidebar.
   Maria -> EdTechTalk I have a few kindergarten kiddos who put the copyright sign on their work!
   courosa -> EdTechTalk thus you cannot force them to choose a license … it is THEIR work.
   courosa -> EdTechTalk THEIR choice
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk pretty clear now
   Durff -> EdTechTalk welcome back matthew
   courosa -> EdTechTalk it counts as payment sometimes or entry
   courosa -> EdTechTalk work for hire
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk yep
   courosa -> EdTechTalk illegal in public schools
   clithers -> EdTechTalk Seems that "common sense" (perhaps Creative Commons sense) should prevail but then lawyers get involved.(
   courosa -> EdTechTalk then google owns everything if that is true
   courosa -> EdTechTalk Your work resides on every Google server!
   courosa -> EdTechTalk it just doesn’t make sense.
   Pam Shoemaker -> EdTechTalk Great conversation!
   courosa -> EdTechTalk It is not fair to force anyone into letting go of their rights, period!
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk ditto courosa
   Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk Did you ever notice on wikispaces that it states the work is Creative Commons statement on edit page?
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk yes, so…..?
   courosa -> EdTechTalk I love the Creative Commons, I use it with everything I do, however, there are still people that make their living through copyright. We are lucky that we are paid to teach. We don’t have to make our living creating content. We have to respect all sides of this.
   Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk written poorly sorry
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk http//
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi techsavvy’
   CathyN -> EdTechTalk perhaps the term for schools taking them could be "hijacking"
   Durff -> EdTechTalk hi jeff
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Hey Jeff is lurking in and out today -)
   Jeff -> EdTechTalk refreshing pages a lot
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk hahah
   Jeff -> EdTechTalk getting ready for Ustream practice session
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk great
   Durff -> EdTechTalk he’s checking up on us
   Durff -> EdTechTalk big brother is watching
   derrallg -> EdTechTalk but a kind big brother
   Durff -> EdTechTalk true
   courosa -> EdTechTalk @arthus Thanks for asking the question.
   clithers -> EdTechTalk Thanks everyone, a great conversation. MUST sleep now!
   arthus -> EdTechTalk @courosa no problem… wanted to hear
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Where are all of you from ?
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Just quickly?
   Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk New Jersey
   courosa -> EdTechTalk I think it affirmed what we were saying.
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk great show, glad I was here.
   Sarah S -> EdTechTalk Maine
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk maien
   cheryloakes skiing fool -> EdTechTalk maine
   alicemercer -> EdTechTalk Awesome, part of the Maine contingent
   clithers -> EdTechTalk UK
   JoseR -> EdTechTalk Los Angeles, CA
   Durff -> EdTechTalk akying fool!
   Ann-NJTechTeacher -> EdTechTalk I’ll have to catch up on the beginning from the podcast thanks for a great topic

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