Prompted by an article he shared from the NY Times, Out of Work in Finance, They Turn to Teaching, we asked Kevin Jarrett to join us. The discussion about the implications of the program mentioned in the article included talking about good teacher preparation programs, mentoring for new teachers, and the teaching profession as a calling.
Maria lost the stream several times when skype crashed on her end. The complete audio is in ustream.
11:20:17 LisaParisi: Hi Stacy
11:23:54 kjarrett: Hi!
11:24:16 kjarrett: http://sharetabs.com/8fj
11:27:55 stacy: Hi, sorry, ‘I’m here
11:31:57 Lisa Parisi: Hi Diana
11:32:11 Lisa Parisi: Diane…sorry
11:32:46 dlaufenberg: No, its Diana… Morning all!
11:33:03 kjarrett: Hi Diane!!!!
11:33:19 Lisa Parisi: Darn…I had it right the first time.
11:33:27 Lisa Parisi: Sound is on ETTA
11:33:51 dlaufenberg: yes, yes you did… its great at work b/c the secretary is Diane… we have both been very good at waiting for the end of the name to comment
11:36:38 Lisa Parisi: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/nyregion/new-jersey/10tradersnj.html
11:39:45 dlaufenberg: the teaching as fall back profession is going to be a big problem for sustainability, growth and innovation
11:40:03 kjarrett: http://www.enotes.com/blogs/english-teacher-blog/2009-05/those-who-can/
11:40:46 Lisa Parisi: True, Diana
11:41:27 Lisa Parisi: Welcome Glazaro.
11:41:59 kjarrett: http://sharetabs.com/8f2
11:42:32 glazaro: thank you, I saw your tweet about this talk, interesting
11:43:28 Lisa Parisi: Welcome Neal.
11:44:03 Lisa Parisi: Hello Elizabeth
11:44:53 DBragg: In my school we are having an issue with subs that are coming from other profession and not following teacher’s plans
11:46:28 glazaro: In Peru, high schools prefer specialized teachers for subjects such as Math, and Science
11:46:34 kjarrett: http://www.gse.harvard.edu/~ngt/index.htm
11:46:43 Lisa Parisi: Welcome Barb
11:47:10 glazaro: I?m one of those cases, I tried education because I liked it, and now I’m following a teaching certification program and an MEd
11:48:36 Sheila: Welcome hanaa and loonyhiker!
11:48:42 loonyhiker: hi sorry i’m late – watched the shuttle land
11:48:42 hanaa: hi
11:48:52 kjarrett: no problem!!!
11:48:53 DBragg: In Pennsylvania, if you have a certification in one area you can take the Praxis test in another area and if you pass it you can be certified in that area.
11:49:30 Lisa Parisi: Welcome Pat
11:49:38 loonyhiker: Thanks! sorry i was late
11:51:58 glazaro: What about the Praxis tests?
11:52:04 dlaufenberg: and if we are moving in the direction of alternatively certifying a larger cadre of new teachers, we need to very carefully think about how to properly support them
11:52:56 loonyhiker: aw come on – they hired u cuz they knew u were good 🙂
11:53:14 Sheila: Hi Derrall and Matt
11:53:21 matt montagne: hey sheila
11:53:22 derrallg: hi Sheila
11:53:40 loonyhiker: kind of like, u r breathing, over 21, and wanted to teach
11:54:19 MariaK: is the stream up – I’m crashing somewhere
11:54:28 Sheila: ustream is up
11:54:35 dlaufenberg: because at the end of the day, we need to make sure that the kids are the first priority… learning… you know, what we are trying to do with them.
11:55:18 loonyhiker: schools don’t always care about what is in the best interest of the children
11:55:42 dlaufenberg: and the problem with bringing in teachers with little exp. or pedagogy… is that we need to further standardize the teaching… to accommodate them. and that is, I fear, going to be an ugly side effect
11:56:45 matt montagne: For me the most imortant part about pre-service was in one particular practicum where we examined how we were taught in K12 and then compared that to modern pedagogy (at the time it was whole language, project based learning, congitively guided math instruction, etc)…small thing, but very valuable…
11:57:37 matt montagne: definitely the apprenticeship part of the whole pre-service experience is the most important part and perhaps should be amplified even more
11:57:39 Lisa Parisi: Anyone else want to join in the skype call?
11:58:27 Lisa Parisi: Yes, Diana!!
11:58:31 DBragg: Lisa, that was not my experience. As an undergrad in Virginia I observed one day and student taught for 1 sememster. As a Techers College grad student, we were expected to student teach for 2 semesters
11:58:32 Lisa Parisi: Exactly!
11:58:43 matt montagne: why do many people, even after going through a teaching program, teach the way they were taught in school??
11:58:51 plnaugle: I agree that the student teaching experience is too short in most cases.
11:58:52 Lisa Parisi: I guess it depends on the school
11:58:56 loonyhiker: @lisa can’t lisa – hubby thinks i’m watching the shuttle landing and stuff w/ him right now 🙂
11:59:07 dlaufenberg: sla is working with a local university to develop a pre-service teacher program…. that starts year one and continues thru graduation… student teaching
11:59:46 DBragg: @dlaufenberg that is great!
11:59:54 connect2jamie: @dlaufenberg That sounds great! What an experience for those pre-serv tchrs!
12:00:51 plnaugle: I helped write student teacher program at University of New Orleans years ago. Main emphasis was to get them into the classroom before student teaching semester.
12:01:21 matt montagne: at a previous school I worked at, we had a para professional who was formerly in the military drill march students with discipline problems…this was in my first 2 years of teaching and I didn’t feel like I could say anything…I thought it was wrong on many levels
12:01:27 DBragg: We certainly can use the help in the classroom.
12:01:35 kjarrett: @matt I hear you…
12:01:43 connect2jamie: In TX, we have an alternative ed program that people with non-education degrees can get certified through. IMO, the tchrs that I have seen come out are not ready for prime time!
12:01:45 kjarrett: Military CAN be a negative…
12:02:07 derrallg: I went to a teacher fair and the Oakland school district was so desperate they tried to get me to sign a contract as if I was only interested in openings, my program mentor freaked out
12:02:29 dlaufenberg: we will have 8 new teachers at SLA in the fall… am working on crafting a mentoring/new eacher program that will be effective and engaging
12:02:34 matt montagne: @derral…Oakland seems like a mess
12:03:06 derrallg: @matt yes the people I know who went there did not last, and they were the most dedicated
12:03:08 loonyhiker: i think real mentoring is so important
12:03:21 plnaugle: Kevin I agree. Not enough want to put it the time needed to do it well.
12:03:35 dlaufenberg: @loonyhiker what are the key components for ‘real mentoring’?
12:04:02 loonyhiker: we had one where ppl were assigned to be mentors, and it was all on paper – never did see that real mtgs took place.
12:04:04 derrallg: see ya matt
12:04:07 kjarrett: bye matt thanks!
12:04:31 loonyhiker: i think regular mtgs should take place and specific topics discussed as well as leave it open to discuss other issues too
12:05:14 loonyhiker: i think new tchrs need to have real f2f mtgs w/ mentors to guide, help, encourage them
12:05:17 dlaufenberg: @loonyhiker am thinking about having once weekly observations… using specific tools for observation… for both the mentors and the mentees.
12:05:18 plnaugle: Got to go. On my way to school to finish up end of year paperwork. Tuesday is last day.
12:05:25 kjarrett: Bye Paula!
12:05:28 kjarrett: Thanks for coming in!
12:05:52 loonyhiker: @dlaufenberg that would be great – observations both way are important
12:05:58 derrallg: my district places a lot of interns from the local university I think ultimately because it saves money
12:07:00 dlaufenberg: @lparisi that is the only way ‘they’ can assure consistent delivery of the material
12:07:10 dlaufenberg: and my question then is… why don’t we make it into a video…
12:07:18 dlaufenberg: play the thing and be done with it.
12:07:59 derrallg: we have a lot of freedom in my district and many schools don’t use the adopted materials
12:08:21 ehelfant: have to run help kids..thanks for conversation!
12:08:27 Lisa Parisi: ANyone want into the skype call? Derrall? Elizabeth? Anyone?
12:08:39 derrallg: bye Elizabeth
12:08:39 kjarrett: Bye Elizabeth!
12:10:08 dlaufenberg: scripting is dangerous… makes the job into a more industrialized gig that feeds a standardized testing industry
12:11:24 derrallg: nope lower level thinking skills are the focus
12:11:50 Lisa Parisi: Welcome Louise!
12:11:56 dlaufenberg: i call this… the culture of one right answer
12:12:05 Louise Maine: Sorry i am late
12:12:15 kjarrett: Hi Louise!
12:12:16 derrallg: compliance factories
12:12:22 dlaufenberg: because the test proves that the scripting works
12:12:31 kjarrett: Exactly Diane!
12:12:33 dlaufenberg: not that the learning happens…
12:12:39 connect2jamie: @dlaufenberg I like that! Culture of one right answer
12:12:40 Lisa Parisi: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/nyregion/new-jersey/10tradersnj.html
12:12:46 Louise Maine: Hi Kevin and Lisa!
12:13:18 derrallg: my district is fortunate in that we are not forced to comply and yet we have the highest test scores in the state
12:13:33 kjarrett: Why do you think that is Derall?
12:13:44 kjarrett: Your scores…I mean!
12:14:02 DBragg: Are these the teachers the public wants to teach their children?
12:14:06 derrallg: social/economic, parent pressure
12:14:07 dlaufenberg: @connect2jamie… have been fighting against that for quite some time. railed against it in Flagstff when I would get the new 7th graders, who had been completely trained to believe that school is a series of correct answers in bubbles
12:14:31 derrallg: @Kevin our parents do more test prepping than we do
12:14:55 kjarrett: @derrall you mean teaching or test prepping?
12:15:03 kjarrett: like actual test prepping?
12:15:07 derrallg: preparing for the state test
12:16:15 kjarrett: what materials do they use?
12:16:41 derrallg: but for us this means we have resistance for using 21st century skills because the attitude is "why fix what isn’t broken"
12:17:04 derrallg: @kevin they use the workbooks at the teacher’s store
12:17:43 Louise Maine: Exactly. We are not high in testing but anything different is not appreciated and kids can’t just look up an answer and therefore are doing work. Innovation not always appreciated.
12:17:46 loonyhiker: i’ve had to tell my kids the same thing – play the game, jump thru the hoops but this is not real life
12:17:51 Lisa Parisi: Hi Karen
12:17:57 KarenJan: HI, Lisa!
12:17:58 loonyhiker: hi @karenjan
12:18:00 KarenJan: hi everyone
12:18:10 Louise Maine: hi @karenjan
12:18:23 KarenJan: HI, Louise, HI Pat
12:18:46 KarenJan: what’s the difference? what’s the formula?
12:20:08 kjarrett: @derrall but for us this means we have resistance for using 21st century skills because the attitude is "why fix what isn’t broken" EXACTLY
12:20:59 KarenJan: how many of you were taught well when you were K-12?
12:21:11 Lisa Parisi: Not me, Karen.
12:21:24 kjarrett: In a FEW cases, I was…
12:21:24 KarenJan: I know, not you, lisa – you had a terrible experience
12:21:25 Louise Maine: Not at all. I did not really learn until after college.
12:21:30 kjarrett: Count ’em on one hand…
12:21:48 kjarrett: Several teachers made a difference in my life…
12:21:58 Sheila: I had some teachers who really pushed me in Reading’s schools.
12:22:00 loonyhiker: my geometry tchr was an ordained minister and professional magician – i learned to shuffle cards w/ one hand but i can’t do a lick of geometry – had an A in the class
12:22:12 KarenJan: @sheila – good to know
12:22:13 connect2jamie: I had some fantastic teachers and mentors, but I wouldn’t say that my experience K-12 as a whole was excellent.
12:22:18 derrallg: @karenJan I was the worst student kicked out of class, that’s why I don’t teach to what I had to tolerate
12:22:37 connect2jamie: I had some great teachers, but the system wasn’t great.
12:22:42 kjarrett: @derrallg Interesting – tell us more!
12:22:46 dlaufenberg: @KarenJan I feel I was taught well. but not necessarily because of the teaching methods, but rather the community support the school received
12:22:51 KarenJan: in MA 2/3 of the elemntary school teachers just failed the Math certification test. they are now trying to figure out what to do – should these teachers get certified?
12:22:52 loonyhiker: i was a great memorizer but no one taught me how to think – was very challenged when i went to college
12:23:23 kjarrett: My oldest daughter is now at college (Rutgers) and had a BIG wake up call!
12:23:29 kjarrett: She was NOT ready…
12:23:33 derrallg: @kevin I was the classic "not performing up to expectation," read a lot on my own by high school
12:23:40 Louise Maine: I was a great memorizer too
12:23:45 loonyhiker: i really struggled cuz no one taught me how to think critically
12:23:59 dlaufenberg: we do need more teachers, esp. in urban ed.
12:24:21 dlaufenberg: but wew need people that like children, understand the enormity of the undertaking and support them along the way
12:24:38 Lisa Parisi: How about getting teachers who love to teach and putting them in urban ed. Offer an incentive…money? time? great PD?
12:24:56 kjarrett: Incentives are key….
12:25:04 kjarrett: Some of us are self-motivated…
12:25:04 derrallg: @lisaP I agree that an incentive should be there
12:25:08 Louise Maine: I am so proud of my students right now – they can really think but it has been a struggle
12:25:27 kjarrett: What grade, Louise?
12:25:35 dlaufenberg: you have to start a school from scratch
12:25:35 loonyhiker: I think working at SLA would be a dream job – too bad I live too far away 🙂
12:25:48 Louise Maine: 9th and 10th
12:25:58 dlaufenberg: urban ed… but we are weird urban
12:26:08 dlaufenberg: you need leaders
12:26:11 dlaufenberg: principals
12:26:14 dlaufenberg: good ones
12:26:18 KarenJan: I was a great student, too but hated school. believed that public education needed to be overhauled but in 1972. it’s almost 40 years later and we still debate the same issues
12:26:19 dlaufenberg: because we don’t
12:26:30 dlaufenberg: we being as a group od educators
12:26:32 kjarrett: @karenjan ain’t that the truth!
12:26:35 Louise Maine: My husband said I could get a job at SLA and move there. But we have a farm here. Too much frustration.
12:26:39 dlaufenberg: I have a fab. admin… its why I moved
12:26:46 derrallg: I feel as if my growth in learning PBL/student centered is stunted because I’m not working with teachers on the same page
12:26:56 kjarrett: @diane we all want to be you!!!
12:27:20 Sheila: @derrallg I agree
12:27:34 KarenJan: sometimes I think public education is the problem, by definition. it’s in the DNA. Time to recreate the DNA
12:27:34 Louise Maine: My admin is lacking and in a depressed area. When you are the only one who will even talk about it, you are considered too innovative.
12:27:47 dlaufenberg: that is also, important… tim tyson is another great example
12:27:54 dlaufenberg: of transformative leadership
12:27:58 Louise Maine: How do we do that when we are not in control of the DNA?
12:28:27 dlaufenberg: and we all should be thinking about ways to support new creative ways to build schools that honor what we value
12:28:39 kjarrett: x2 Diane!
12:28:44 dlaufenberg: and for some of you… that means… fire up some admin cert. programs
12:29:12 KarenJan: Louise, right now I"m trying to get the school to reevaluate how we do reading based upon Readicide. I’m a school board member and am being thwarted by trying to do things in the background. very frustrating
12:29:41 dlaufenberg: new schools, new programs… new hires… is one of the only way I an envision brining meaningful change to schools.
12:29:42 derrallg: I think that the issues and pressures creates insecurities and an insecure teacher wants more control in the classroom, the opposite of the learning environment needed
12:30:19 KarenJan: how about SLA?
12:30:20 Louise Maine: @karenjan So those at the bottom and those at the top can’t get anything done. Even if I was a principal would I be able to make change if the schoolboard and the super. does not see it?
12:30:21 derrallg: were’s my prozac?
12:30:38 DBragg: Because the test punish the poor, the disadvantaged, those that speak multiple languages, etc.
12:30:48 dlaufenberg: @karenJan… what’s the question?
12:31:05 KarenJan: Louise, i’m not giving up – i’ve talked to the Superintendent, the English Department chair, the School committee chair
12:31:36 KarenJan: @dlaufenberg – Lisa was talking about she’d move to collaborate with like minded teachers. SLA would be a great place to work
12:31:40 Louise Maine: So now, my big changes this year that has most of the teachers hating me is going to be evaluated on the state test for science. How much of my influence is going to make a change as other teachers from elem up have impact (no science taught in elem.)
12:32:05 dlaufenberg: @karenjan… ah… thx for explanation
12:32:11 KarenJan: @louise – are you the science dept. chair?
12:32:16 Louise Maine: I am not giving up either but it has not been an easy year and really looking at how to move up and out
12:32:19 derrallg: My district is doing another summer institute and at the district level there are several people who are pushing and advocates for change
12:32:42 kjarrett: Anyone read Anthony Muhammad’s book, Transforming School Culture?
12:32:42 Louise Maine: @karenjan no. and the science chair does not try anything he is not told to do
12:32:57 Lisa Parisi: Should I add that book to my list?
12:33:12 derrallg: Mabe we could talk to summer reading list for inspiration
12:33:14 KarenJan: how to people get selected to be dept. chairs?
12:33:20 KarenJan: how do people
12:33:21 kjarrett: See: http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/the_tempered_radical/2009/05/here-it-is-radical-nation-the-first-day-in-our-four-day-conversation-on-transforming-school-cultures-and-overcoming-staff-d.html
12:33:31 kjarrett: @lisa YES!
12:33:32 JoseRodriguez -> -Puentes al Mundo: jgarro al final en la mesa redonda de hablamos para que nos expliques
12:33:38 loonyhiker: i got to be dept. chair cuz it was a lot of work for no extra pay
12:33:42 Louise Maine: masters and seniority
12:33:47 kjarrett: @loonyhiker lol
12:33:52 KarenJan: innovation has nothing to do with it?
12:34:07 loonyhiker: apparently my dept. chose me becuz they felt i was a good leader
12:34:17 Louise Maine: I was chair in MI and dealt with vertical steering on the curriculum. Here it is budget, etc.
12:34:31 dlaufenberg: thanks all… have a lovely long weekend.
12:34:32 Lisa Parisi: : http://ettconversations.blogspot.com/
12:34:38 loonyhiker: i was the liaison between my dept and the admin
12:34:43 kjarrett: Thanks everyone!
12:34:47 KarenJan: so who actually promotes change and innovation in public schools?
12:34:51 loonyhiker: thanks for a great conversation y’all!
12:34:53 kjarrett: We do!
12:34:59 derrallg: great discussion, thanks conversations crew, and KJ
12:35:34 Louise Maine: Will check out the archive for what I missed! Have a great weekend!
12:35:38 Pilar Soro -> -Puentes al Mundo: fijense en las reuniones TIC, encuentros, congresos, todos de los 40 pa riba
12:35:48 KarenJan: enjoy the extra day off tomorrow
12:36:01 loonyhiker: that would be great to get an admin point of view
12:36:13 loonyhiker: tchrs could bring their own admins
12:36:22 dlaufenberg: yeah… SLA… educon… arne… that would take a lot of work.
12:36:29 derrallg: I wonder what’s going to happen with Gary Stager at NECC
12:36:41 KarenJan: @derrallg – what do you mean?
12:37:04 derrallg: @karenjan the petition he was having people sign to be on a discussion group
12:37:11 KarenJan: thanx
12:37:29 KarenJan: but what a message that would send if Arne was there
12:37:46 KarenJan: wow – great idea @maria
12:37:57 KarenJan: teachers for change
12:38:01 loonyhiker: bye
12:38:05 Lisa Parisi: Bye All
12:38:05 derrallg: bye
12:38:12 kjarrett: bye all
12:38:15 kjarrett: peace out!