Teachers Teaching Teachers#280 – Walk Out Walk On w/ Deborah Frieze 2012-01-18

On this episode of Teachers Teaching Teachers
, we are joined by Deborah Frieze one of the authors of Walk Out Walk On http://walkoutwalkon.net 

We are joined by Chris Sloanmonika hardyJeff LebowChad SansingScott ShelhartMaryBeth HertzPaul AllisonKelsey Shelhart,Deborah Frieze, and Ryan White

teachers280b

More about Deborah from http://www.walkoutwalkon.net/authors: 

In 2001, Deborah Frieze walked out of her career as an executive in the high-tech industry. She was disillusioned by a business culture that emphasized short-term results, looked upon growth as an end rather than a means, and cared more about compliance than community. A year later, she met Meg Wheatley and a community of pioneering leaders who, like her, were walking out of organizations and systems that were failing to contribute to the common good. These were friends and colleagues of The Berkana Institute. She currently lives in Boston but can more often be found visiting friends and colleagues around the world who are creating healthy and resilient communities.

 Learn more at http://www.deborahfrieze.com.

Chat Log Below

 01:28 Paul
Allison
:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/113993022447291199374/posts

 01:28 Paul
Allison
: http://www.deborahfrieze.com/

 01:28 Paul
Allison
: http://www.walkoutwalkon.net/

 01:28 Paul
Allison
:
http://www.deborahfrieze.com/events/two-loops-video/#more-59

 01:34 Jeff:
Hi Paul. All systems go? Cool background music there for a second.

 01:38 Paul
Allison
: Close… I think I can pull this off.

 01:41 Jeff:
Good luck. Will keep standing by just in case. No classes today, so no
problem on this end. I keep hearing static as you play around and then
a short clip of you staring at the machine listening to wicked witch.

 01:45
Chris Sloan: Good evening. Looking forward to the chat

 01:47 Paul
Allison
: Almost there.

 01:48
Chad Sansing: Hello, friends.

 01:48
Chris Sloan: Hi Chad and Ruth

 01:49 Ruth
Avraham Israeli
: Hi everyone im new here

 01:51 Paul
Allison
: We’ll start in about 3 minutes. Sorry about the
delay.

 01:51
Peggy: Hi all

 01:52
Deborah: Nice to be here

 01:52
Peggy: hoping I have better luck listening tonight–last week my
audio/video kept cutting out so much I couldn’t follow the
conversation. Thinking positive thoughts πŸ™‚

 01:52 Paul
Allison
: Jeff, I give up. Can you have everyone go over to
the other room

 01:53 Jeff:
roger that

 01:53
Peggy: where’s the other room?

 01:53 Paul
Allison
: Do we stay in our TTT Hangout?

 01:54
Chris Sloan: Hi Deborah. Love the book.

 01:54
Peggy: that was a catchy tune πŸ™‚

 01:54 Jeff:
should be good to go in about 2 mins. https://edtechtalk.net/live

 01:54
Peggy: do we need to log out and come back in?

 01:55
Peggy: so excited to have you joining the conversation Deborah!

 01:56 Paul
Allison
: Jeff, Where do we meet?

 01:57
Scott Shelhart: Hi all

 01:57
Peggy: the only thing that is coming through clearly is the song about
the wicked witch πŸ™‚ tee hee!

 01:57
Peggy: Hi Scott

 01:57 Paul
Allison
: Hi.

 01:57 Paul
Allison
: Getting started

 01:57
Scott Shelhart: @paul missing you in the hangout

 01:57
Peggy: doing some troubleshooting with the streaming…

 01:57
Peggy: Paul and Jeff are hard at work!

 01:58
Ryan: Is this live

 01:58
Ryan: sorry, I am new here

 01:58 Paul
Allison
: Welcome

 01:58
Peggy: no worries Ryan

 01:58
Chad Sansing: It will be, Ryan –

 01:58 Paul
Allison
: Still trying to find out where to go.

 01:58
Peggy: this is a live stream with some technical difficulties right
now–shouldn’t be long

 01:58
Scott Shelhart:
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/talk.google.com/ttt?authuser=0&hl=en

 01:58
Ryan: Is this the teachersteachingteachers webcast?

 01:58 Jeff:
good to go

 01:58
Peggy: yes Ryan

 01:59
Ryan: sweet, I am in the right place then

 01:59
Peggy: they’re doing some cutting edge technology things by meeting in
Google Hangout and streaming it here

 01:59
Chris Sloan: Silly question, but how do I get to the hangout Scott?

 01:59
Peggy: you can view the stream here (once it’s working)

 02:00 Jeff:
Hangout at:
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/extras/talk.google.com/ttt?authuser=0&hl=en

 02:00 Jeff:
you’ll need to refresh the /live-ttt page to see the new stream

 02:00
Peggy: if you want to go on camera and participate in the conversation
you should join the hangout

 02:00
Scott Shelhart: stream should be on…. try refreshing your screen

 02:01
Peggy: seeing and hearing everything great now!!

 02:01
Peggy: we are seeing the people in the hangout in this stream now πŸ™‚

 02:01
Peggy: look at that smile!!!

 02:02
Peggy: great to see all of you in the hangout and especially excited to
meet Deborah Frieze πŸ™‚

 02:02
Peggy: Welcome Ryan!

 02:03
Peggy: http://paulallison.tumblr.com/

 02:03
Peggy: Deborah is one of the authors of the book πŸ™‚

 02:03
Peggy: yeah Kelsey!

 02:03
Peggy: hahahaha

 02:04
Peggy: her dad is Scott πŸ™‚

 02:05
Peggy: that’s always a challenge Kelsey–listening through headset with
someone talking right next to you–echo πŸ™‚

 02:05
Peggy: everyone is this group could be considered radical πŸ™‚

 02:05
Peggy: yes start over so it’s part of the recording

 02:06
Peggy: http://www.walkoutwalkon.net/

 02:06 Ruth
Avraham Israeli
: Hi has the conversation begun im still here
on livestream, im new at this site

 02:06
Scott Shelhart: my byline, Agent of change. Stirrer of pots. Kicker of
beehives ….

 02:07
Peggy: hahahaha

 02:07
Scott Shelhart: is on my twitter and plurk pages πŸ™‚

 02:08
Peggy: this background is really helpful!

 02:10
Scott Shelhart: Kelsey and I are taking up two slots in the hangout.
One of us can drop out if others want to join

 02:11
monika: http://vimeo.com/17907928

 02:11
Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about
alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Class

 02:11
Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about
alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Class MaryBeth Hertz: This
is fascinating to think about alongside of disruption theory in
Disrupting Clas

 02:12
Scott Shelhart: Chris Sloan: Disrupting Class … good book

 02:13
Scott Shelhart: Chad Sansing: Interesting – dovetails into a book I’m
reading about “nations” at work in the American state, their power to
assimilate residents, and their immutability to change.

 02:13
Scott Shelhart: Chad Sansing: Responsibility to kids in schools is a
primary driver of the tension between some ideas on the CoΓΆp.

 02:14
Chris Sloan: I like the “class” that is being disrupted. Not just
school class, but socio-economic class (as I recall, it’s been a year
or so since I’ve read it)

 02:15
Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth Hertz: I just wrote about the idea of Change
W/In and W/out the System. I guess I need to read Deborah’s book!
http://mbteach.com/?p=403

 02:16
Scott Shelhart: Chad Sansing: @MB: EduCon book group

 02:17
Chad Sansing: Swaraj sounds a bit like Goddard.

 02:19
Christina: Chad, what were the names of the places in Mexico? do you
remember?

 02:19
jackiegerstein: Sad – that time in education has to be spent unlearning
– what are the ethics behind this?

 02:19
Kelsey: Zapatismo and Uniterria

 02:20
jackiegerstein: Passion-based learning

 02:20
Chad Sansing: Christina – Unitierra in Oaxaca and Chiapas –

 02:21
Christina: Thank you @Chad!

 02:22
Chad Sansing: Sure thing –

 02:22
Scott Shelhart: Delayed learning to read… because there hes yet to be
a need to read?

 02:22
Mary Beth: @jackie as far as ethics go—I think of it as guiding kids
towards unlearning misconceptions about what learning is and looks like
that they may get from the way schools are now structured (read: high
stakes testing)

 02:24
jackiegerstein: Bringing Schools Back to Life: Schools as Living
Systems in Creating Successful School Systems: by Margaret Wheatley
http://margaretwheatley.com/articles/lifetoschools.html discusses start
anywhere follow it everywhere

 02:25
jackiegerstein: @Mary Beth – I am concerned about coercive learning and
the ethics behind that – in that we have to help them unlearn

 02:25
Chad Sansing: Sudbury Valley: http://www.sudval.org/

 02:25
Chad Sansing: Brooklyn Free School (democratic/free education):
http://www.brooklynfreeschool.org/

 02:26
jackiegerstein: Education as it should be – passion-based. Montessori
Methods – Worth a (Re)Look
http://usergeneratededucation.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/montessori-methods-worth-a-relook/

 02:26
Mary Beth: @jackie are you worried that there is coercion involved in
guiding students to unlearn

 02:27
jackiegerstein: @Mary Beth – nope I am concerned about a system that
forces kids to what, how to learn; and then they have to unlearn to get
back to their “selves”

 02:27
Chris Sloan: A link to the Utah school that Deborah mentioned:
http://www.segolilyschool.org/

 02:27
Chad Sansing: @Ryan: are there principles kids can explore w/ materials
they choose and bring? What is essential for kids to illustrate – and
are their essentials in the “how” that can be tackled with different
materials?

 02:28
Chad Sansing: The way we schedule, staff, and track classes doesn’t
help, but that makes each of those things fertile ground for criticism,
experimentation, and subversion.

 02:28
jackiegerstein: Maybe more Reggio then?

 02:30
Mary Beth: @jackie–ah, yes. Is school actually in the business of
letting kids be themselves as it currently exists?

 02:30
jackiegerstein: Stockholm’s School Without Classrooms
http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/37250/vittra/

 02:30
Chad Sansing: Thanks, Jackie – good share.

 02:31
Christina: I think this is such an interesting and important point
about the cross-generational social fabric.

 02:31
Mary Beth: Which is why the Free School model is so neat—one room
schoolhouse–all ages learning together.

 02:31
jackiegerstein: I did a multi-generational (four generations) for
at-risk kids, was amazing – got a USA Today award

 02:32
jackiegerstein: It is a learning community!

 02:32
Scott Shelhart: Ryan White: @Scott I think they could definitely do
that, it would just require a teacher who has enough experience to
answer all the different types of questions

 02:33
Christina: Where do we even create, for ourselves, an intergenerational
social fabric? Just thinking about it.

 02:33
jackiegerstein: Why does the teacher need to have all the answers?

 02:35
Chris Sloan: @Christina. We’ve had luck linking with the alumni from
our school.

 02:35
Scott Shelhart: Kelsey Shelhart: they don’t. people within the person
asking’s reach have to have all the answers. communitivly

 02:35
Scott Shelhart: Ryan White: @ Scott, for the same reason we dont need
to re-invent the wheel

 02:35
Mary Beth: Adults still ask to use the bathroom πŸ™‚

 02:35
Chris Sloan: The kids actually get a lot out of hearing the stories of
the older people’s experience at our school, and of course the older
folks like to be heard

 02:37
jackiegerstein: De-conditioned from systems that worked very hard to
condition us from very early years.

 02:38
Chad Sansing: Sometimes it does not feel like meditation πŸ˜‰

 02:38 Carol
Black
: That’s definitely what unschooling is.

 02:39
jackiegerstein: . . . and inviting/accepting the chaos and confusion of
the a community’s evolution

 02:40
Christina: leadership as host is an interesting way of talking about
it. therefore the questions become how do you learn how to lead in this
way? how do you support others in this way too?

 02:40
jackiegerstein: That’s Sugra Mitra’s belief – offer kids a great
question and then get out of the way

 02:40
Scott Shelhart: It is interesting to listen to the conversation and
frame it as an elementary teacher

 02:41
Scott Shelhart: Kelsey Shelhart: nothing is unanswerable, you just have
to know where to look

 02:41
jackiegerstein: The Art of Hosting and harvesting conversations that
matter is a new practice of democracy that we really need in the world
now.” http://www.artofhosting.org/home/

 02:41
Christina: @Chad a practice certainly!

 02:43 Jeff:
http://margaretwheatley.com/articles/emergence.html

 02:44
monika:
http://berkana.org/berkana_articles/lifecycle-of-emergence-using-emergence-to-take-social-innovation-to-scale/

 02:44
Chad Sansing: Jeff beat me to the link.

 02:44
Peggy: teamwork Chad πŸ™‚

 02:44
Scott Shelhart: again, seeing parallels to Disrupting Class

 02:44
Chad Sansing: Jeff is hero and host.

 02:45 Jeff:
loving being a non-host listener/learner

 02:45
Christina: http://www.infed.org/biblio/communities_of_practice.htm

 02:46 Jeff:
I’d say we embrace failure as a part of the community learning adventure

 02:46
Scott Shelhart: The community is the curriculum? Sounds familiar

 02:46
Mary Beth: How can we help young people create communities of practice?

 02:47
jackiegerstein: actually it fits the outward bound model

 02:47
jackiegerstein: Cool!

 02:48
Christina: Writing Project resources about this .. here’s one:
http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2690

 02:49
Scott Shelhart: …proud dad moment…

 02:49
Peggy: I can see why Scott πŸ™‚

 02:50
Chris Sloan: Thanks Christina. Good stuff

 02:50
Mary Beth: and I think social media plays a role in how students form
these communities

 02:50
Christina: Another one:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:nOHewSLgS04J:www.nwp.org/cs/public/download/nwp_file/9031/el200709_lieberman.pdf?x-r%3Dpcfile_d+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg5MMYG3t3Vj4E-2gK5GBSAZd9ev1sDiBV1ORTYUed-dkQn-9pXEuze99cmRVJx21fA_nW2oTuKOqkT57d5g15TSP5obwpBKmsyWn-dx6jNcz0z32IeR5uwtjw5njUMxmC6RTqt&sig=AHIEtbRHc1CmlwxFwlflGGjV1UJblYRYaQ&pli=1

 02:51
jackiegerstein: Outward bound models focuses on building community –
facilitator helps groups create their norms and community, and then
progressively removes him/herself from the community, letting the young
people run their community

 02:51
Mary Beth: Love the idea of ball seats!

 02:51 Jeff:
wondering what the seat choices were…

 02:51 Jeff:
More kids go for a seat, ball, or standing desk?

 02:52
Peggy: Scott has some great ustream videos of his students using the
balls as seats

 02:52
Chris Sloan: I’m guessing they went for the ball

 02:52 Jeff:
I’m on one right now – I’m free! (and not squeaking anymore)

 02:52
Mary Beth: I’m thinking of the aboriginal walkabout, too

 02:53
jackiegerstein: That’s what came to my mind Mary Beth Walk-abouts

 02:53
Scott Shelhart:
https://sites.google.com/site/scottshelhartportfolio/home/edpg-artifacts-and-rationale-statements/edpg-2

 02:53
Peggy: funny Jeff! the squeaking chair is part of your online identity
πŸ™‚

 02:55
Karen Steffensen: Fabulous thoughts.

 02:59
Chad Sansing: One of my favorite provocations: Rushkoff’s “Program or
be Programmed.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imV3pPIUy1k

 02:59
Peggy: πŸ™‚ that’s our site!

 03:00
Peggy: I’m so glad the book was available on Kindle πŸ™‚

 03:01
Scott Shelhart: Is on Nook also

 03:01
Peggy: don’t have a Nook πŸ™‚ but am loving reading it on my Kindle Fire!

 03:01
Scott Shelhart: Kelsey is going to lend it to me when she is done

 03:01
Peggy: great Scott!

 03:02
Peggy: love that distinction–not reading about the place but “at the
place”

 03:02
Scott Shelhart: I dont have a nook or kindle… I use my phone

 03:03
Karen Steffensen: Part from book that resonates for me: Jugaad–
ingenuity, an invitation to imagination/play, to reinvent…

 03:04
Scott Shelhart: Leader as host and hospice model are my big “take-away”
items for tonight

 03:04 Ruth
Avraham Israeli
: nice monika!

 03:06
Peggy: wonderful conversation!! thank you all!

 03:07
Christina: Thanks everyone!

 03:07
Christina: great work πŸ™‚

 03:07
Scott Shelhart: Thanks Peggy! Good to have you here, as always

 03:07 Ruth
Avraham Israeli
: thank you all!

 03:07
Karen Steffensen: Thanks all for sharing.

 03:07
Peggy: you too Scott (and Kelsey)!

 03:08
Peggy: every group needs an audio nag πŸ™‚

Hangout Chat

 Scott Shelhart:  Peggy George says hello to all

Chad Sansing: What up, MB?

MaryBeth Hertz: Hey Chad!

Scott Shelhart: Kelsey, do you know how to set up 2 windows so yo ucan see the other chat?

Kelsey Shelhart: yes

Scott Shelhart: Peggy George (guest-0): this background is really helpful!

Kelsey Shelhart: I think I got it. It may not be right, but it works

Scott Shelhart: Ill come help. Hang on

MaryBeth Hertz: This is fascinating to think about alongside of disruption theory in Disrupting Class

Chris Sloan: Disrupting Class … good book

Scott Shelhart: Yes, I’m reading it for the 2nd time

Chad Sansing: Interesting – dovetails into a book I’m reading about “nations” at work in the American state, their power to assimilate residents, and their immutability to change.

me: I encourage folks to chat at https://edtechtalk.net/live 
Every time someone chats here, we get a ‘ding’ on the stream and recording

Scott Shelhart: jeff – you can sut off teh ding on your end

Kelsey Shelhart: I like being on this end on the chat… you get to see more

Chad Sansing:Responsibility to kids in schools is a primary driver of the tension between some ideas on the CoΓΆp.

MaryBeth Hertz: I just wrote about the idea of Change W/In and W/out the System. I guess I need to read Deborah’s book! http://mbteach.com/?p=403

Chad Sansing: @MB: EduCon book group :)

Scott Shelhart: There are others in the other chat

Plus… the other chat is recorded for async use later. This chat is not recored. best if we use the other one if possible

Chad Sansing: @Scott: I will crosspost hereafter; thanks for the help.

Scott Shelhart: …that’s my job :-)

Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Sad – that time in education has to be spent unlearning – what are the ethics behind this?

@jackie as far as ethics go—I think of it as guiding kids towards unlearning misconceptions about what learning is and looks like that they may get from the way schools are now structured (read: high stakes testing)

Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Bringing Schools Back to Life: Schools as Living Systems
in Creating Successful School Systems: by Margaret Wheatleyhttp://margaretwheatley.com/articles/lifetoschools.htmldiscusses start anywhere follow it everywher

Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Education as it should be – passion-based.
Montessori Methods – Worth a (Re)Lookhttp://usergeneratededucation.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/montessori-method…

Kelsey Shelhart: these people ar posting interesting things faster than I can write!

Scott Shelhart: The other chat is recorded. You can read the archive later. Focus on the live coversation

Chad Sansing (guest-1547): @Ryan: are there principles kids can explore w/ materials they choose and bring? What is essential for kids to illustrate – and are their essentials in the “how” that can be tackled with different materials?


Scott Shelhart: Mary Beth (guest-1551): @jackie–ah, yes. Is school actually in the business of letting kids be themselves as it currently exists?

jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Stockholm’s School Without Classroomshttp://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/37250/vittra/

Ryan White: @Scott I think they could definitely do that, it would just require a teacher who has enough experience to answer all the different types of questions

Scott Shelhart: Christina (guest-1556): Where do we even create, for ourselves, an intergenerational social fabric? Just thinking about it.

jackiegerstein (guest-1552): Why does the teacher need to have all the answers?

Kelsey Shelhart: they don’t. people within the person asking’s reach have to have all the answers. communitivly

Ryan White: @ Scott, for the same reason we dont need to re-invent the wheel


Scott Shelhart:jackiegerstein (guest-1552): De-conditioned from systems that worked very hard to condition us from very early years.


Kelsey Shelhart: nothing is unanswerable, you just have to know where to look

Scott Shelhart: It is interesting to listen to the conversation and frame it as an elementary teacher

The Art of Hosting and harvesting conversations that matter is a new practice of democracy that we really need in the world now.”http://www.artofhosting.org/home/

Kelsey Shelhart: I made a diagram. I want to show it to everybody. when there’s a good time.

Scott Shelhart: Christina (guest-1556): Writing Project resources about this .. here’s one:http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/2690

Scott Shelhart: Disclaimer – proud dad moment…. My kid rocks!

Karen Steffensen (@kstef2) (guest-1561): Part from book that resonates for me: Jugaad– ingenuity, an invitation to imagination/play, to reinvent…

Kelsey Shelhart: Your kid is just like you, therefore… you rock!

MaryBeth Hertz: Yes she is, Scott!

*does :)

Chris Sloan: rock on Shelharts

Scott Shelhart: MaryBeth – What grade do you teach?

MaryBeth Hertz: I teach grades K-7 technology (K-2 netbook cart) 3-7 in a computer lab

Scott Shelhart: Sounds challenging, but fun

MaryBeth Hertz: It is fun, but I love my robotics club best

Thanks Deborah!

MaryBeth Hertz: Bye guys!

Ryan White: Adios!

Chad Sansing: Β‘Adios!

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