September 12, 2008
12:07 ustreamer-63419 : Jo Ann yes
12:07 ustreamer-84266 : I am hearing you
12:07 sebathuer : is working!
12:07 BirdieQ : how do I get audio?
12:07 debcarter : i hear audio — everyone else?
12:08 BirdieQ : Oh, there it is.
12:08 ustreamer-84266 : Lisa HOw can I change my 82466 name
to my real one?
12:08 LisaMLane : @BirdieQ might need to log out and in again
12:08 sebathuer : yes, I hear too!
12:08 LisaMLane : #84266 get an account or use OpenID
12:08 LisaMLane : we’ll hear Stephen rattling his paper clips
12:08 anitsirk : there is a voice 🙂
12:10 ustreamer-5117 : btw, no video…
12:10 ustreamer-94675 : Jo Ann: no video? do some have video?
12:10 LisaMLane : yeah, I want to see Stephen’s yard again
12:11 coarsesalt : fire in questions in here 🙂
12:11 coarsesalt : i’m ur host 🙂
12:11 IanLeighton : woo hoo I’m not a number anymore
12:12 LisaMLane : recalling some comments on the Moodle
forum, can a person be a node or are that person’s ideas a node?
12:12 lornacos : it is interesting that controversy draws
people into the discussion
12:13 ustreamer-73066 : I think she gathered us more that she
12:13 LisaMLane : she’s certainly a disruptive force, not
that that’s a bad thing necessarily
12:14 LisaMLane : the topic wasn’t heated, just the
12:14 coarsesalt :
12:14 BirdieQ : I remember that behavior in first grade
12:14 jennymackness : not disruptive – critical
12:14 lornacos : disrpution makes investigate our own
thoughts and sharpen how we think
12:14 ustreamer-5117 : btw – anyone have any questions?
12:15 BirdieQ : now it’s sophisticated, and still part of the
12:15 LisaMLane : I had one — should I repeat?
12:15 BirdieQ : agreement is too easy
12:15 ustreamer-5117 : i think dave is following…
12:15 jennymackness : can you comment on how this theory
might apply to children’s learning?
12:15 sebathuer : thanks for the link coarseaslt!
12:16 jcrom : Hi Lisa I am back with my name now!
12:16 LisaMLane : hi jcrom!
12:16 coarsesalt : I AM GATHERING QUESTIONS
12:16 jcrom : Hi!
12:17 LisaMLane : oooh moderation — good idea
12:17 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I would like to hear how
George and Stephen think connectivism is realated to aspects of brain
research as we know it now — or speculative in the future.
How is this kind of learning changing our brains? (e.g.)
12:18 lornacos : it was really helpful that we had the
mapping of the participants
12:18 LisaMLane : not everyone did the map tho 🙁
12:18 LisaMLane : but Rodd, it’s so cool
12:18 Rodd_Lucier : The map goes on for a few different pages
12:18 BirdieQ : where is it?
12:18 lornacos : illustrates the magnitude of the class
12:18 LisaMLane : I keep waiting for more balloons in SoCal
12:18 sebathuer : Map link:
12:18 Rodd_Lucier : www.tinyurl.com/cck08map
12:19 anitsirk : the map is a cool starting point. trevor
meister wants to do much more with virtualization.
12:19 BirdieQ : Oh, the global map.
12:19 Rodd_Lucier : Finding a few key allies to interact with
may be the best way to have a rich experience
12:19 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I would like to learn how to
make the map for classes I do in the future. Link for this information
would be appreciated or perhaps we should just contact the person who
did it for us this time.
12:19 anitsirk : link to trevor’s post:
12:20 coarsesalt : nice one anitsirk
12:20 davidal : Another Question!: Is the connectivism a NEW
explanation of the knowledge or a BETTER explanation (related to the
new cognitivism theories)?
12:20 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Thanks for link
12:21 anitsirk : oh no stephen. that’s a lot of unnecessary
additional work. 🙁
12:21 LisaMLane : that’s why I’m desperately getting every
thing into feeds
12:21 lornacos : I am finding some of the participants
overwhelmed by the new applications
12:21 LisaMLane : even Google Alerts
12:21 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: yes I agree that linking with
a few people or a couple of groups — is a good idea.
12:22 sebathuer : This is my question: Is there any
pre-requeriments for a connective learning? Constructivism supouse you
must have language and logic to learn.
12:22 Rodd_Lucier : It’s not new… the word is new but the
experience of connecting has always been there
12:23 LisaMLane : there’s a problem with causality here
12:23 LisaMLane : there’s correspondence, not causality
12:23 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: new experiences — rate of
experience and kind of sensory modalities — many at once.
12:23 lornacos : you can get wired with the large amount fo
12:24 DavidDElliott : Is Connectivism an additive theory to
earlier theories or a replacement?
12:24 LisaMLane : do crossword puzzles!
12:24 LisaMLane : isn’t that cognitive?
12:24 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: reasearch does show — Brain
Age games — and exercise — help the brain.
12:25 Rodd_Lucier : neuroscience/computer science/social
science.. there are parallels, but maybe it’s just metaphors for
12:26 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I think this reasearch is
going to be exponentially developed in the next few years. There is
neurology reasearch linking with phenomenomoly now —
12:26 coarsesalt : @Rodd… is it French or english? your
12:26 ustreamer-95394 : Somebody knows Mentopolis from Marvin
12:26 carlosgc : My question: Is connectivism not really a
new "materialistic aproach" to the knowledge?
12:26 Rodd_Lucier : Loo_See- eh
12:26 sebathuer : lornacos: do you refer to information
12:27 coarsesalt : @rodd txs
12:27 lornacos : yes
12:27 LisaMLane : I’m beginning to think it’s data overload,
not information overload.
12:27 ustreamer-95394 : Rodd_Lucier : Mentopolis
shows these parallels
12:27 lornacos : just the simple task of how to best organize
the delivery of content
12:27 wmcgrath5011 : what may be most newhere is that rapid
tech and tool changes have given us a different metaphor – plus speed
and access – to describe processes
12:27 coarsesalt : my last minute issue from Wednesday
12:27 ustreamer-33452 : I see connectivism as a way of
takinga dvantage of ITC for generating knowledge and learning. Whay
I’ve found really revealing in the papers we got for the course is that
Connectivism is just publicizing what it is happening in e-learning (I
don’t remember the exact words now).
12:27 scottmerrick : maybe a diff. perspective might be
12:28 lornacos : so many great blogs to read and can’t get to
12:28 ustreamer-67607 : I felt more connected with the daily
12:28 iamarf : no, it may be correct description of reality
and that may be beautiful, why materialist?
12:28 sebathuer : yes, but the idea of the course is to make
your "own" connections
12:28 davidal : Question: Does connectivism explain how we’ve
been learning in the past??? Can you apply the theory to the XIX
century, for example??
12:28 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann — Lornacos — overload
management has been very important in my experience. My limited
management skills have gone off my personal charts in the last few
years — and I wonder where that will go — but not just for me — but
for others — as they have more information to think about
12:28 anitsirk : @coarsesalt: congratulations!
12:28 Rodd_Lucier : The daily summary is a great way to
compile thoughts from all around…
12:29 jcrom : The Fractal pattern
12:29 LisaMLane : I ask because in the forum folks aren’t
comfortable with the person being a node.
12:29 jcrom : Networks nested in networks
12:29 scottmerrick : url for presentation?
12:29 coarsesalt : @carlosgc could you elaborate your
12:30 LisaMLane : YES it connects to the division of
personalities we were discussing Wednesday.
12:30 carlosgc : to iamarf… materialist because the
important point is technology… the materia
12:30 carlosgc : the knowledge is not more "in" the person…
it is in the "machine"…???
12:30 scottmerrick : i think that was a "yes"
12:30 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Yes the summaries, networks
in networks, the mappings for us all — helps a lot. These daily
reports help bring me into a centering process.
12:30 iamarf : yes, it simply explaind how people learn, inte
past as well as now
12:31 ustreamer-50330 : Jo ann I think there is interactivity
12:31 ustreamer-67607 : Do you still receive the daily
12:31 ustreamer-67607 : I must have done something because I
don’t receive it
12:32 LisaMLane : yes, so each idea represents a neural
12:32 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Yes — I have been receiving
them and also for another course — I’m taking at the same time — and
it really helps me with focus.
12:32 ustreamer-5117 : @67607 – spam folder?
12:32 LisaMLane : a separate neural network, not duplicatable
12:32 jomiralb : Does connectivism happen also in informal
specialized social networks sites?
12:32 sebathuer : #67607: go here to view "the daily":
12:33 sebathuer : http://connect.downes.ca/thedaily.htm
12:33 carlosgc : thank you
12:33 LisaMLane : that means you can’t recreate the neural
path to have everyone learn the same way
12:33 jcrom : Networks at the neural level, at the conceptual
level, at the social level and at the infostructure level. A fractal of
12:33 coarsesalt : only one of the points?
12:33 coarsesalt : 😛
12:33 coarsesalt : yay paper 🙂
12:34 scottmerrick : @sebathuer thanks
12:34 ustreamer-67607 : Thanks Jo An, I’ll check my settings
12:34 LisaMLane : it’s part of my mission to make sure we’ve
got historical context here
12:34 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: There is theory that we all
filter through our brains and bodies as in past experience and in
biology. Seems that’s what makes it all so interesting.
12:34 scottmerrick : is my vid blocked or is there none, just
12:34 anitsirk : there’s only audio
12:35 coarsesalt : MORE QUESTIONS PLEASE
12:35 Rodd_Lucier : connectivism is about building on other
concepts… not about starting new, so I would hope the concept of
connectivism evoved and continues to evolve this way
12:35 sebathuer : yes sebastian thuer!
12:35 BirdieQ : How do you test the theory of connectivism?
12:35 DavidDElliott : Again, is Connectivism an extension of
other theories in a new context or a replacement?
12:35 jomiralb : Is there any conmnection between Social
Capital and Connectivism?
12:36 LisaMLane : oh, I don’t know…
12:36 coarsesalt : @davide i was taking that as answered
12:36 coarsesalt : i’ll ask it
12:36 Rodd_Lucier : ?
12:36 Rodd_Lucier : When was the term connectivism first
attached to these concepts?
12:36 iamarf : connectivism is a replacement: emphasis on
12:36 LisaMLane : it’s *because* they know so much and write
about it all the time!
12:37 ustreamer-601 : andreas here: Wouldn’t be
time to get from connectivism as network metaphor to the quality of the
links between the nodes? What are we able to say about this? In which
different qualities are we connected?
12:37 jcrom : Is connectivismo a learning theory only or it
is a theory that applies to every networked reality?
12:37 LisaMLane : experts cannot think as simplistically as
12:37 sebathuer : what happend with my question? i couldn’t
hear the response
12:37 LisaMLane : @jcrom Can’t it be both?
12:37 davidal : jcrom> I would add to our question Can
you explain the reality in terms of networks? So ou can use just
12:38 iamarf : connectivism aplly to every networked reality
12:38 iamarf : uff, there is a thunderstorm here, no video no
12:38 LisaMLane : maybe one could post the question like
this: what is the difference between connectivism and just making
12:39 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: The practical ramifications
— theoretically or philosophicall — does influence what happens to
our students from K- post secondary and on.
12:39 sebathuer : Ok, thanks. Maybe a good idea for a next
12:39 jcrom : Lisa, the Science of Complexity are finding
theories that apply to many different worlds, and I have the suspiction
that this is the case of Connectivism.
12:40 iamarf : connectivism concerns networks ANd "emergence"
of new attributes
12:40 Rodd_Lucier : metaphors are a better replacement for
words for explaining concepts… hence the use of metaphors of the
time… the brain, computer networks…
12:40 ustreamer-601 : @LisaMLane: The Knowing about that one
connecting person is also envelved with other peoples in connection? So
in dead many 2 many relationships
12:40 ustreamer-5117 : @sebathuer – sorry for butchering your
question (george here)
12:41 LisaMLane : @601 but isn’t that just making more
12:41 ustreamer-601 : But there is more 2 know. you reach
other nodes and other knowledge through the network
12:41 scottmerrick : have to run to teach, ya’ll, thanks,
very provocative convers.
12:42 ustreamer-601 : imagine the 10 people theorem. knowing
10 people means 2 know the whole world.
12:42 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Connectivism, to me
incorporates many factors that have accelerated — and perhaps —
changed the way the brain/body is influenced — going on with the
social, technological, body/brain responses, feelings, processing, and
the information passed along to people, between and within people.
12:43 BirdieQ : human learning appears to be at a higher
level of complexity than animal learning. What does connectivism say
12:43 sebathuer : no problem, george.
12:43 LisaMLane : have to go for now — thanks and see y’all
12:44 ustreamer-601 : ba lisa
12:44 ustreamer-601 : beye lisa
12:44 fridemar : bye lisa
12:44 ustreamer-47502 : So for a society to learn – assuming
parts of the society are nodes – connections mean exchange – so i’d
assume there is a need for something like a language – "meaningfull"
12:45 fridemar : How many minutes are left for th Ustream?
12:45 ustreamer-5117 : 15 min
12:45 fridemar : Thanks
12:45 jomiralb : As Steve has said a precondition would be
nodes and links, but what about DSpcial capital?
12:46 ustreamer-601 : In dead it is!
12:46 ustreamer-601 : 😉
12:47 diliniw : question: how does connetivism see
communities of practice? I’m working with improving Local Government
service delivery by improving their knowledge.
12:47 mmvcentro : Important point
12:47 sebathuer : thanks jomiralb.
12:48 ustreamer-1028 : Hi all–accidentally deleted my daily
email this AM and just now found you all! Sorry!
12:48 ustreamer-601 : #handclap context is king 😉
12:48 Rodd_Lucier : Just in time learning… to scaffold
experiences of the networked learner
12:49 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Thanks — great talk on
options and context.
12:49 jomiralb : Is there need of a specific dynamization
inside the network? A sort of leadership?
12:50 wmcgrath5011 : where is the locus of learning in
network? in the nodes? in the interstices? as a dynamic? in
conversation with another, we are co creating an experience –
but where is learning? – in what I take away as a node? Or is there a
relationship that is learning as well?
12:50 Rodd_Lucier : We are trapped in building on the
solutions already established!
12:50 ustreamer-601 : replace leadership with guidance?
12:50 carlosgc : learning is now… ; )
12:50 Rodd_Lucier : If we didn’t have schools, classrooms and
grades, would we start there to educate folks?
12:50 jomiralb : Thanks ustreamer-601
12:51 jomiralb : Thank yo sebathauer
12:52 fridemar : @Rodd, Minimal invasive learning might be
the answer 🙂
12:52 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: inter-relationships in
teaching is about guidance, the help that the orgainized communications
— instructional design with links, and some roadmaps — that in turn
can help the experience of the learner – without adding excessive
12:52 fridemar : "Hole in the wall"
12:52 Rodd_Lucier : @wmcgrath5011 Is learning in the
strengthening of the connections as much as the development of new
12:53 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Affordance of opportunity
–"Hole in the wall".
12:53 Rodd_Lucier : @fridemar Touche
12:53 ustreamer-5117 : @50330 – and in certain contexts, that
level of organization can be the perfect approach
12:53 iamarf : wmcgrath5011: learnin is na emergent
phenomenum, networks in nature produce emergent phenomena
12:53 ustreamer-601 : @Rodd_Lucier Have in Mind which things
hou have 2 have learned to be enabled to take the maximum use.
12:54 jomiralb : Yes but social capital draws a specific
dynamic kinside the network and maybe this can influence the result of
12:54 jomiralb : Thinkins in strong ties and weak ties I
believe that they may influence leartning inside the network
12:54 Rodd_Lucier : … and yet the Jennifer Aniston neuron
may exist! (Medina”s Brain Rules)
12:54 ustreamer-601 : @Rodd_Lucier : so it isn’t the question
of replacing its the question of how to enrich
12:54 diliniw : thanks for that!
12:55 Rodd_Lucier : May not be more dominant, but may be
12:55 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Action-oriented
particiapation –at the foundation then — and for more people too.
12:55 Rodd_Lucier : Always it’s about enrich!
Purpose, engagement, value, real…. Too much of formal learning is
irrelevant to the world of our charges
12:56 LDinSTL : I’m still trying to figure out which is the
ONE webpage that will give me links to all the pieces of the course I
need to know about. 🙂
12:56 LDinSTL : Blog? Wiki? Other?
12:56 sebathuer : the wiki
12:56 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: relevancy — yes — to the
12:56 Rodd_Lucier : the wiki…
12:56 mmvcentro : Wiki
12:56 LDinSTL : thx–tooo many notes!
12:57 LDinSTL : in my life
12:57 iamarf : yes, the wiki but relax, too
12:57 fridemar : anitoba.ca/wiki/CmapsForCck08
12:57 ustreamer-601 : Control? Not sure if i got it right?!
12:57 Rodd_Lucier : making our own ‘Connections’!
12:58 fridemar : yes
12:58 sebathuer : yes, that’s the idea…. select your nodes
and make your our connections
12:58 fridemar : with cmaps on a public cmapserver
12:58 ustreamer-601 : no it slows my mac to sleep!! 🙂
12:58 fridemar : it is a daunting task, that can only be
mastered, if we all weave the web
12:59 LDinSTL : ZPD issue 🙂
12:59 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: I think the cmaps is
something to explore more — for visual-conceptual.
12:59 ustreamer-59398 : came in late on the chat
but have been listening…HELLO!!
12:59 davidal : Is a pleasure!
12:59 davidal : Thanks you all
12:59 BirdieQ : np
12:59 jomiralb : Thank you all!
12:59 ustreamer-59398 : this is Susan in Italy
12:59 BirdieQ : thanks
12:59 ustreamer-59398 : thanks
12:59 voges : in holland it lopoked like it was on 19 hrs!!
12:59 BirdieQ : same time same place?
12:59 mmvcentro : Thanks
12:59 LDinSTL : I don’t see the video–any tips?
01:00 carlosgc : bye bye
01:00 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: Thanks for connecting.
01:00 jmerritt : thanks
01:00 sebathuer : thanks you!!
01:00 diliniw : thanks you!
01:00 ustreamer-601 : handclap thank you all! 🙂
01:00 sharongs : Thanks so much. This has been
really useful in terms of getting a grasp on some concepts.
01:00 jcrom : Thanks
01:00 anitsirk : thank you
01:00 fridemar : Thanks
01:00 ustreamer-50330 : Jo Ann: no video
01:00 LDinSTL : ahha–that would explain it lol
01:00 DavidDElliott : Thanks!
01:00 mmvcentro : claps to you. Maru
01:00 IanLeighton : fade to black….
01:00 fridemar : Why not putting these videos on YouTube?
01:00 voges : the timetable was not correct! i am a bit sad
01:00 LDinSTL : I wanted to see their smiling faces
01:00 mmvcentro : no video either
01:01 anitsirk : @voges: there was a glitch in the time
conversion. the daily said 11, but it was linked to 12 pm winnipeg time
= 7 pm. the netherlands
01:01 fridemar : for embedding them in wikis, allowing
01:01 LDinSTL : daylight savings time issue
01:01 LDinSTL : that was a standard time conversion, looks
01:01 voges : no it wasw not on 19 hr because that’s now on
this moment and you are not thera any longer.
01:01 fridemar : Somebody knows the Aboutus.org wiki?
01:01 anitsirk : no. it was only linked wrongly. the other
time conversions were correct as far as i have seen.
01:02 LDinSTL : operator error?
01:02 LDinSTL : hehe
01:02 ustreamer-59398 : ciao Andreas
01:02 dolors : Thanks Geotge and Stephen
01:02 voges : did it start an hour ago? than it was 18 hr in
01:02 anitsirk : maybe. next time: the time difference for
most part of europe is 7 hours
01:02 fridemar : All cck08 who have a web/blog can have their
permanent representation there and connect
01:02 LDinSTL : just now over–I lost my email and was really
01:02 LDinSTL : where is everyone who is still here?
01:02 fridemar : cck-participants
01:03 LDinSTL : I’m in St. Louis, MO
01:03 diliniw : sri lanka
01:03 LDinSTL : cool!