Knowledge Online Course
Discussion – Openness:
social change and future directions
November 14, 2008
Chat Log Below
11:52 anitsirk : hello sia and anonymous ustreamers. it’s kristina
11:53 voges : Hai Kristina and others.
11:53 ustreamer-15779 : Hello Kristina, this Jorge Crom 🙂
11:53 anitsirk : hello jorge.
11:54 voges : Ha Jorge
11:54 anitsirk : how are you?
11:56 voges : I have not been here for a while, I was very
busy, I am glad to be here now
11:56 Rodd_Lucier : Happy Friday everyone
11:56 anitsirk : i saw all your twitter messages, sia,. which
event was that?
11:57 anitsirk : same to you, rodd. and hi george.
11:57 anitsirk : and jenny. 🙂
11:57 gsiemens : hi all…
11:57 jennymackness : Hi everyone!
11:57 voges : A 2 days conference about e-learning, very
interesting. My twittering was an experiment for myself, I found it
11:57 voges : Hi George.
11:58 voges : Hi Rod and Jenny
11:59 anitsirk : is there already audio?
11:59 Rodd_Lucier : not yet
11:59 anitsirk : i’m too impatien to wait. 😉
11:59 voges : And my collueages were very amazed about me,
11:59 anitsirk : 🙂
12:00 jennymackness : that’s dedication for you George!
12:00 anitsirk : you are always a forerunner in your group,
12:00 anitsirk : hi dave.
12:00 ustreamer-15779 : I can hear you now, Jorge
12:01 anitsirk : i think it is not jorge. it is dave
12:01 ustreamer-15779 : Who is talking?
12:01 anitsirk : now dave
12:01 anitsirk : now george
12:01 anitsirk : laughter by stephen
12:01 ustreamer-15779 : OK, thanks.
12:02 anitsirk : elluminate has audio problems?
12:02 Rodd_Lucier : And so continues the digital divide
12:03 anitsirk : ustream usually has problems for me when we
have video. slows down everything. elluminate works great for me, but
of course, we don’t have video there.
12:04 anitsirk : @dave: better don’t use video then
12:04 LisaMLane : I’m here now, we can start 😉
12:04 anitsirk : hi lisa
12:04 voges : Hai Lisa
12:04 Rodd_Lucier : Just in time Lisa…
12:04 LisaMLane : Hi y’all
12:05 ustreamer-5749 : i have no problem with chrome
12:05 anitsirk : hasn’t stephen left?
12:05 LisaMLane : SD has left the stadium
12:05 wdrexler : Hi everyone!
12:06 Rodd_Lucier : in 3-2-1…
12:11 courosa : get a pseudonymity
12:11 LisaMLane : x28 is Matthias
12:11 Rodd_Lucier : are public learning and open learnin g
necessarily the same thing?
12:11 anitsirk : thanx lisa. one less anonymous person.
12:12 courosa : an open learning model doesn’t have to be an
exlusively open learning model … you can create private spaces within
an open model
12:12 wdrexler : Couldn’t we have open access without open
learning? In other words, individuals can choose to work
independently or within the group. But, everyone has access
12:12 courosa : what about open source software? important,
and foundational to the emergence of all of this.
12:13 LisaMLane : so attribution isn’t open
12:15 anitsirk : it would be interesting to have a tool that
tracks where open content is used. just to see whether it is taken up
or whether not. not to control. however, you can’t track prorietary
12:16 GrahamAttwell : but it is changing
12:16 GrahamAttwell : 10 years ago ther wa slittle free music
12:16 LisaMLane : is a comment I make on a blog post content?
12:16 GrahamAttwell : yes of course
12:17 LisaMLane : what I’m writing here too?
12:17 GrahamAttwell : @Lisa certainly
12:17 anitsirk : i would say yes, lisa. robert scoble, i
think, once posted a blog entry on that. i’ll try to find it after the
session (am recording)
12:18 GrahamAttwell : What is relation between (open) content
and (open) knowldge
12:19 voges : sound is becoming more difficult for
12:20 anitsirk : george is cutting out 🙁 i think it is the
connection. he mentioned something like that earlier.
12:20 GrahamAttwell : @George the relation between artefacts
– as content – and knowdedge – as community or network knowledge
12:21 LisaMLane : I am having no sound problems
12:22 ustreamer-59426 : I have to take laptop across hall –
may lose you all…
12:23 anitsirk : is that you, george? good luck with staying
12:24 anitsirk : maru wrote a nice post bringing together
these different roles of a teacher.
12:25 mmvcentro : Thanks @anitsirk
12:25 LisaMLane : ok, who yawned?
12:26 anitsirk : @lisa. it’s too bad that neither dave nor
stephen are in the chat. they miss the joke.
12:26 LisaMLane : oh, yeah, right, I forgot
12:26 LisaMLane : you know, I don’t think I could deal with
200 apprentices each semester
12:27 Rodd_Lucier : This idea of modeling openness, respect
for learning/creation is to license our own work as teachers… and to
encourage students to do the same. Would such work can
parallel or contradict openness?
12:28 wdrexler : But, isn’t balance ok – is it necessary to
always learn publicly? If so, we must help our students take
risks and embrace open constructive criticism.
12:28 Rodd_Lucier : Lost audio…
12:28 LisaMLane : I could deal with 200 aggregated students,
but I can’t grade that way.
12:29 mmvcentro : I have a friend that has 400 students in
Sudan, I don’t know how she manages
12:29 LisaMLane : they could be a community, but I have to
grade them individually
12:29 Rodd_Lucier : Public learning not always best… think
about driving a car off the get go…
12:30 wdrexler : Is this an instructional design
issue? Different techniques are appropriate for different
12:31 LisaMLane : I *love* the modeling idea.
12:31 anitsirk : didn’t get the meaning of the palin joke.
was it something that came up on wednesday’s session? haven’t reviewed
12:31 LisaMLane : The apprenticeship model is problematic,
12:32 ustreamer-69702 : Are you all able to hear George OK? a
bit choppy here in the skype call
12:32 voges : sound is not so good but i can follow
12:33 ustreamer-24748 : I find that it is often best to stay
in stealth mode in discussions – students do much better when they
don’t see me there watching their every post ..vt
12:33 anitsirk : currently, sound is fine for me. he does not
cut out much.
12:33 mmvcentro : : Maru, Good Sia!
12:33 LisaMLane : but you’re only grading what, 22?
12:34 mmvcentro : LOL
12:34 LisaMLane : ok, so I can handle 2000 people so long as
I don’t have to grade their work
12:34 voges : Students are self responseble for grading, not
the teacher is.
12:34 anitsirk : we have a historic moment.
12:35 voges : let them give you properly and good pieces.
12:35 voges : you can grade if you let THEM do their work
12:36 LisaMLane : @voges yes, indeed, I’m trying that, but so
far it’s just a different set of problems
12:36 voges : ofcourse it is Lisa, but it can change!
12:36 ustreamer-59426 : one doesn’t look in forests for
12:36 LisaMLane : Sia, I am working on creating
success without overload
12:37 ustreamer-24748 : success without overload – that is
the REAL challenge
12:38 voges : maybe do more with peerreviews and so.
12:38 mmvcentro : Downes criteria to handle information is
very useful, you can avoid overload that way
12:38 mmvcentro : Focus, define what you’re looking for
12:39 ustreamer-59426 : deer in the headlights?
12:39 voges : my experience is that it is possible not to be
12:39 Rodd_Lucier : We read differently than we used to…
the only way to handle content.
12:39 LisaMLane : but SD has been developing these skills
for many years
12:39 voges : it is to learn
12:39 LisaMLane : it’s an “eat the frosting first” approach
12:39 voges : yes, it takes some time lisa
12:39 Rodd_Lucier : Our students are developing similarly
unique brain skills…
12:40 ustreamer-24748 : some students don’t think they want
or need to learn these skills
12:41 LisaMLane : I love this question!
12:42 LDinSTL : depends on your theoretical position on
12:42 LDinSTL : or philosophical position heheh
12:43 LisaMLane : what’s a newspaper?
12:43 anitsirk : lol
12:43 LDinSTL : yeah, we stopped all our paper news
12:43 LisaMLane : I buy one occasionally to support the
sellers and for…um…pet care reasons
12:44 anitsirk : but nw in the blogs you can have the itros
as well. some only allow this short paragraph to appear in a blog
12:44 LDinSTL : haha Lisa–or if traveling and not getting
12:44 anitsirk : sorry for the spelling errors. nw=now,
12:45 Rodd_Lucier : that’s how I read my daily news online…
no question. Never actually quantified it that way before…
Good info to share with online teachers…
12:45 LisaMLane : I could do an assignment on Nazi golfing
cats…I’m a historian
12:46 ustreamer-59426 : Nazis’ golfed?
12:46 ustreamer-24748 : but I miss some things because there
is stuff in the newspaper that isn’t in the news feeds.
12:46 voges : i still like my daily paper every evening.
12:46 LDinSTL : but it probabl y IS there if you go to the
12:47 ustreamer-59426 : I’ll need to relisten – too many
distractions here at school
12:47 LisaMLane : our Borders bookstore has its security
camera over the Islam section
12:48 LDinSTL : probably they are!
12:48 LisaMLane : they even moved the books around so you can
be more easily seen looking at them
12:48 LisaMLane : but wait, you mean Fox isn’t fair and
12:48 LDinSTL : but Fox makes me gag and throw things–how do
you get around that problem? 🙂
12:48 voges : lisa, is that true?
12:49 ustreamer-24748 : yea, right cnn is fair and balance lol
12:49 LisaMLane : What, Sia, about Borders? I now go there
and look at books on Islam on purpose
12:49 voges : how sad.
12:50 LDinSTL : “fair and balanced” is based on your own
philosophical position–can’t escape that without changing the bubble
you live and work in
12:50 LisaMLane : I’m just looking for a little rational
12:51 LisaMLane : oh, and good spelling
12:51 LDinSTL : ruh roh
12:52 LisaMLane : some people I don’t want to watch learn,
like I don’t want to watch sausage being made
12:52 LDinSTL : Phelan Corimal in Second Life wants
Rockcliffe U to be taken seriously, but accrediation is a
12:53 LDinSTL : he’s a PhD student in education with a long
background in business, and with great skills
12:53 LDinSTL : but not the credential and credibility
12:53 LDinSTL : accreditation (sp)
12:56 wdrexler : Good weekend everyone. Off to
12:56 anitsirk : bye wendy
12:56 LisaMLane : I can’t take Alec’s class for credit,
because my college doesn’t accept U of Regina’s credentials.
12:56 mmvcentro : Bye Wendy, have a nice class
12:56 LDinSTL : University of Phoenix
12:56 voges : thanks wendy the same to you
12:57 anitsirk : @lisa what’s the different between u of
regina and u of manitoba’s credentials? does your u have a formal
agreement w/ manitoba so that you can take this class for credit?
12:58 LDinSTL : scientists in higher ed in the US are really
far from “getting” that concept–not saying I agree with them–but I
know a ton of them and the whole connectivism thing is way off of their
12:58 LisaMLane : Manitoba is on a list, so is Sask, but not
12:58 anitsirk : too bad.
12:58 LDinSTL : they are social liberals but education
conservatives (and don’t even know it)
12:58 LDinSTL : higher ed profs that is
12:59 LisaMLane : no all, dear, not all
12:59 LDinSTL : ok–most biologists/chemists/physicists–what
12:59 LDinSTL : changing, but slowly
12:59 voges : I am glad to have been connected again to you
all. thanks and bye.
01:00 voges : Lifetime assessment, I agree Stephen
01:00 anitsirk : bye sia. have a nicee weekend.
01:00 mmvcentro : Bye Sia, have a nice weekend.
Glad to see you here
01:00 ustreamer-59426 : ok here for awhile again
01:00 LDinSTL : @Lisa – historians are not who I meant –
should have qualified that 🙂
01:00 ustreamer-59426 : our 7th graders published a book
01:00 LisaMLane : @LD no offense taken
01:01 LisaMLane : I’m gonna post a picture of Borders video
01:01 LDinSTL : one of my favorite books is “Lies my Teacher
01:01 LDinSTL : lol
01:01 LDinSTL : “Everything Your American History Textbook
01:02 LDinSTL : fabulous book
01:02 anitsirk : thanks dave, jeff, george and stephen
01:02 ustreamer-9609 : Bye, thanks all
01:02 LDinSTL : ciao
01:02 mmvcentro : Thanks all
01:02 LisaMLane : thanks, Dave, et al
01:02 ustreamer-59426 : I like that title LD
01:02 Rodd_Lucier : I don’t think I’m an audio learner…
? ; )
01:02 ustreamer-59426 : thanks and ciao
01:02 Rodd_Lucier : G-day all
01:02 LDinSTL : it’s real–read it–very interesting
01:02 badgerjen01 : ttfn!
01:03 anitsirk : buy guys.
01:03 LDinSTL : What did Helen Keller do when she grew up?
Who knew? lol